並前往https://podcasts.apple.com/ee/podcast/ep248-%E4%BB%8A%E5%A4%A9%E4%B8%8D%E8%AE%80%E9%9D%88%E9%AD%82%E8%85%B3%E6%9C%AC-%E4%BE%86%E8%81%8A%E8%81%8A-%E5%A6%82%E4%BD%95%E6%88%90%E7%82%BA%E8%AB%AE%E5%95%86%E5%BF%83%E7%90%86%E5%B8%AB-%E5%91%A8%E6%85%95%E5%A7%BF-%E8%AB%AE%E5%95%86%E5%BF%83%E7%90%86%E5%B8%AB-%E5%B0%88%E8%A8%AA/id1452688611?i=1000558192030