並前往https://podcasts.apple.com/fr/podcast/2022-ep05-%E7%8E%8B%E5%B8%8C%E6%96%87-%E9%A1%8F%E8%BE%B0%E6%AD%A1-%E7%95%B6%E9%87%91%E8%93%AE%E6%88%90%E7%86%9F%E6%99%82-%E9%9F%B3%E6%A8%82%E5%8A%87%E7%82%BA%E4%BB%80%E9%BA%BC%E5%A0%85%E6%8C%81%E4%B8%8D%E6%94%BE%E5%AD%97%E5%B9%95-%E6%BD%98%E9%87%91%E8%93%AE%E5%9C%A8%E5%B9%B3%E8%A1%8C%E5%AE%87%E5%AE%99%E6%92%95%E4%B8%8B%E6%A8%99%E7%B1%A4%E8%A7%A3%E6%94%BE%E6%83%85%E6%85%BE%E5%A5%BD%E5%97%A8%E5%96%94/id1524199349?i=1000553269346