並前往https://podcasts.apple.com/jp/podcast/ep75-%E6%82%B2%E6%85%98-%E5%BC%B7%E8%BF%AB%E6%8E%A8%E9%8A%B7%E8%A1%80%E6%B7%9A%E5%8F%B2/id1522773953?i=1000535220687