並前往https://podcasts.apple.com/nz/podcast/ep29-%E5%8B%95%E6%89%8B%E6%89%93%E4%BA%BA%E6%89%8D%E6%98%AF%E6%9A%B4%E5%8A%9B-%E8%A9%B2%E5%A6%82%E4%BD%95%E8%B7%9F%E6%83%85%E7%B7%92%E5%8B%92%E7%B4%A2%E7%9A%84%E6%81%90%E6%80%96%E6%83%85%E4%BA%BA-%E6%AD%A3%E7%A2%BA-%E5%88%86%E6%89%8B/id1531578328?i=1000571199193