並前往https://podcasts.apple.com/tw/podcast/%E8%A1%8C%E5%8B%95%E6%98%9F%E7%90%83-%E5%B0%8F%E5%BE%90%E8%AA%AA%E8%AA%AA%E8%A9%B1-ep159-%E5%B0%8F%E6%99%82%E5%80%99%E8%B3%BD%E8%BB%8A%E9%81%8A%E6%88%B2%E5%9B%9E%E6%86%B6-%E4%B8%8B-%E6%A5%B5%E9%80%9F%E5%BF%AB%E6%84%9F%E7%B3%BB%E5%88%97%E8%AE%93celsior%E4%B8%80%E8%B7%AF%E7%8E%A9%E4%B8%8B%E5%8E%BB/id1546197239?i=1000579764961
