並前往https://podcasts.apple.com/tw/podcast/052-%E6%84%9B%E5%90%83%E9%9D%92%E8%8F%9C%E7%9A%84%E9%B1%B7%E9%AD%9A-%E5%8F%B0%E8%AA%9E%E7%B9%AA%E6%9C%AC%E5%94%B8%E8%AE%80/id1560362194?i=1000530249962