並前往https://podcasts.apple.com/tw/podcast/2-62-%E6%90%AC%E5%AE%B6%E7%9A%84%E6%96%B7%E6%8D%A8%E9%9B%A2%E6%80%8E%E9%BA%BC%E9%82%A3%E9%BA%BC%E5%9B%B0%E9%9B%A3-ft-jay/id1520655428?i=1000581793309