並前往https://podcasts.apple.com/tw/podcast/ep-228-%E6%8E%A8%E5%8A%9B-%E8%AE%80%E5%BE%8C%E5%BF%83%E5%BE%97-%E8%A9%BC%E8%AB%A7%E6%9C%89%E8%B6%A3%E7%9A%84%E8%A1%8C%E7%82%BA%E7%B6%93%E6%BF%9F%E5%AD%B8%E5%A5%BD%E6%9B%B8/id1532820533?i=1000591386441