並前往https://podcasts.apple.com/tw/podcast/ep-42-%E7%81%AB%E6%98%9F%E6%98%9F%E5%BA%A7%E8%B6%B4%E5%85%94-%E9%80%99%E9%9B%86%E7%9A%84%E9%83%BD%E5%A5%BD%E9%AB%98%E8%AA%BF%E5%95%8A/id1536374746?i=1000526250107&l=fr