並前往https://podcasts.apple.com/tw/podcast/ep-57-%E6%80%9D%E8%80%83%E7%9A%84%E6%A1%86%E6%9E%B6-%E6%9C%80%E5%AF%A6%E7%94%A8%E7%9A%84%E4%B9%9D%E7%A8%AE%E6%80%9D%E7%B6%AD%E6%A8%A1%E5%9E%8B%E5%92%8C%E5%BF%83%E5%BE%97%E6%95%B4%E7%90%86/id1532820533?i=1000519702464