並前往https://podcasts.apple.com/tw/podcast/ep06-%E8%80%81%E9%97%86%E4%B8%80%E5%80%8B%E8%BB%8A%E9%96%80%E5%A4%9A%E5%B0%91%E9%8C%A2/id1632464321?i=1000585212005