並前往https://podcasts.apple.com/tw/podcast/ep11-%E8%88%AA%E7%A9%BA%E8%A6%81%E8%B3%A3-%E8%B2%A8%E6%AB%83%E8%A6%81%E8%B2%B7-%E5%98%89%E6%99%B6%E9%81%87%E6%9A%96%E7%94%B7-%E6%BC%A2%E7%A3%8A%E9%81%87%E6%B8%A3%E7%94%B7-%E5%AE%8F%E9%81%94%E9%9B%BB%E9%82%84%E6%9C%89%E6%88%B2-ft-%E6%AC%8A%E8%AD%89%E5%B0%8F%E5%93%A5/id1590806478?i=1000544915757