並前往https://podcasts.apple.com/tw/podcast/ep13-%E6%98%AF%E8%AA%AA%E7%82%BA%E4%BB%80%E9%BA%BC%E8%A6%81%E7%94%9F%E5%B0%8F%E5%AD%A9%E5%95%8A/id1522773953?i=1000491146390