並前往https://podcasts.apple.com/tw/podcast/ep17-%E9%9B%B2%E7%AB%AF%E6%9C%80%E5%89%8D%E7%B7%9A-%E9%9B%BB%E5%8B%95%E8%BB%8A%E6%B5%AA%E6%BD%AE-%E4%BD%A0%E8%B7%9F%E4%B8%8A%E4%BA%86%E5%97%8E/id1540536244?i=1000513404650