並前往https://podcasts.apple.com/tw/podcast/ep25-%E8%91%89%E6%AD%A1-%E4%B8%8A-%E9%A3%9B%E7%A2%9F%E5%B0%8F%E5%85%AC%E4%B8%BB-%E5%92%8C%E7%8E%8B%E5%82%91%E5%90%88%E5%94%B1%E4%BD%A0%E6%98%AF%E6%88%91%E8%83%B8%E5%8F%A3%E6%B0%B8%E9%81%A0%E7%9A%84%E7%97%9B%E7%9A%84%E6%80%A7%E6%A0%BC%E5%A5%B3%E8%81%B2/id1541568907?i=1000528052238