並前往https://podcasts.apple.com/tw/podcast/ep31-%E5%9C%B0%E7%94%A2%E7%A7%98%E5%AF%86%E5%AE%A2-%E8%B2%B7%E4%BA%86%E6%88%BF%E6%89%8D%E7%99%BC%E7%8F%BE%E8%88%8A%E4%BD%8F%E6%88%B6%E5%A5%BD%E5%A4%9A-%E5%9C%B0%E4%B8%BB%E6%88%B6-%E5%8D%A0%E6%AF%94%E9%AB%98%E5%95%8F%E9%A1%8C%E5%A4%9A/id1529842418?i=1000504057813