並前往https://podcasts.apple.com/tw/podcast/ep36-%E5%A4%A9%E6%A9%8B%E4%B8%8A%E7%9A%84%E9%AD%94%E8%A1%93%E5%B8%AB-%E5%B0%8F%E8%AA%AA%E8%88%87%E6%88%B2%E5%8A%87%E5%B7%AE%E5%9C%A8%E5%93%AA%E8%A3%A1-%E4%B8%AD%E8%8F%AF%E5%95%86%E5%A0%B4%E4%B8%AD%E7%9A%84%E6%B6%88%E5%A4%B1%E5%8D%B3%E5%AD%98%E5%9C%A8-ft-%E6%96%B9%E6%A0%BC%E5%AD%90%E4%BD%9C%E8%80%85-%E7%99%AE%E5%90%9B%E5%AD%90-%E6%AD%AA%E6%96%87%E7%B3%BB/id1523420304?i=1000521431304