並前往https://podcasts.apple.com/tw/podcast/ep36-%E7%9C%8B%E5%AE%8C%E5%A5%BD%E5%BF%83%E7%97%9B%E5%95%8A-%E8%87%B4%E9%9D%92%E6%AB%BB%E5%BC%98%E6%9B%86-%E6%88%91%E5%80%91%E5%BF%83%E7%9B%AE%E4%B8%AD-%E5%A6%82%E6%87%BF%E5%82%B3-%E5%90%8D%E5%A0%B4%E6%99%AF/id1531578328?i=1000540731488