並前往https://podcasts.apple.com/tw/podcast/ep43-%E8%BF%B7%E5%9B%A0%E7%A5%9E%E7%89%87%E5%8E%9F%E4%BE%86%E6%98%AF%E8%81%B7%E5%A0%B4%E6%95%99%E7%A7%91%E6%9B%B8-%E5%BE%9E-%E7%A5%9E%E9%9A%B1%E5%B0%91%E5%A5%B3-%E7%9C%8B%E8%8F%9C%E9%B3%A5%E7%9A%84%E5%90%84%E7%A8%AE%E7%AA%98%E6%85%8B-%E4%BD%A0%E9%82%84%E8%A8%98%E5%BE%97%E7%AC%AC%E4%B8%80%E5%A4%A9%E4%B8%8A%E7%8F%AD%E7%9A%84%E6%84%9F%E8%A6%BA%E5%97%8E/id1519378369?i=1000492423847