並前往https://podcasts.apple.com/tw/podcast/ep5-%E8%AC%9D%E5%93%B2%E9%9D%92-%E7%94%A8%E8%97%9D%E8%A1%93%E6%89%93%E9%96%8B%E9%81%8A%E6%AD%B7%E4%B8%96%E7%95%8C%E7%9A%84%E6%83%B3%E5%83%8F/id1565087227?i=1000522457222