並前往https://podcasts.apple.com/tw/podcast/ep5-%E9%8C%84%E9%80%99%E9%9B%86%E4%BB%A5%E5%89%8D%E6%88%91%E5%88%AA%E4%BA%86%E5%A5%B9%E8%87%89%E6%9B%B8%E5%A5%BD%E5%8F%8B-%E5%BC%B5%E6%99%AF%E5%B5%90%E5%92%8C%E6%88%91%E7%9A%84%E5%8F%8B%E8%AA%BC%E9%87%8D%E9%80%A2/id1550562997?i=1000510993914