並前往https://podcasts.apple.com/tw/podcast/ep55-%E8%A8%B1%E5%AF%8C%E5%87%B1-%E5%A5%B3%E6%AD%8C%E7%94%B7%E8%81%B2%E7%B6%93%E5%85%B8%E9%87%8D%E7%94%9F-%E8%88%9E%E5%A0%B4%E7%A3%A8%E7%B7%B4%E6%8B%BE%E6%AD%8C%E5%91%88%E7%8F%BE/id1484310363?i=1000506266271