並前往https://podcasts.apple.com/tw/podcast/ep63-%E6%9D%8E%E8%89%BE%E7%92%87-%E6%97%8B%E5%BE%8B%E7%9A%84%E9%AD%94%E6%B3%95%E5%B8%AB-%E6%B7%BA%E8%AB%87%E7%B7%A8%E6%9B%B2%E4%BA%8C%E4%B8%89%E4%BA%8B/id1503523744?i=1000522206152