並前往https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/%E6%82%A8%E5%A5%BD%E6%88%91%E6%98%AF%E5%AE%85%E5%A5%B3%E5%B0%8F%E7%B4%85-ep61-%E7%90%86%E5%B7%A5%E7%94%B7%E7%A7%98%E5%AF%86%E6%AA%94%E6%A1%88%E5%A4%A7%E5%85%AC%E9%96%8B-%E7%90%86%E5%B7%A5%E7%94%B7%E6%8F%AA%E7%AB%9F%E6%98%AF%E4%BB%80%E9%BA%BC%E6%A8%A3%E7%A5%9E%E7%A7%98%E7%9A%84%E7%89%A9%E7%A8%AE-%E8%80%8C%E7%9C%9F%E7%9A%84%E6%9C%89%E4%BA%BA%E6%9C%83%E6%83%B3%E7%9F%A5%E9%81%93%E5%97%8E/id1560266097?i=1000564822859