並前往https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/ep-4-%E9%A6%AC%E6%88%B2%E5%9C%98%E6%AE%BA%E4%BA%BA%E4%BA%8B%E4%BB%B6-%E4%B8%8B%E9%9B%86/id1559480667?i=1000516353411