並前往https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/ep33-%E5%8F%B0%E7%81%A3%E9%81%8A%E6%88%B2%E5%85%AC%E5%8F%B8%E8%80%81%E9%97%86%E8%AA%98%E5%A7%A6%E5%9C%8B%E4%B8%AD%E7%94%9F%E7%B9%AA%E5%B8%AB-%E5%90%B3%E4%BA%A6%E5%87%A1%E4%BA%8B%E4%BB%B6%E5%BE%8C%E7%BA%8C/id1534481431?i=1000531116267