並前往https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/ep5-%E7%82%BA%E4%BA%86%E6%84%9F%E6%83%85%E9%95%B7%E4%B9%85-%E5%BF%AB%E5%8F%AB%E4%BD%A0%E7%94%B7%E6%9C%8B%E5%8F%8B%E4%BE%86%E5%81%9A%E4%BF%9D%E9%9A%AA%E6%A5%AD%E5%8B%99/id1622152489?i=1000565357254