並前往https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/ep52-%E4%BE%86%E8%81%8A%E4%B8%80%E4%B8%8B%E6%93%8D%E4%BD%9C%E8%B7%9F%E8%B6%8A%E4%BE%86%E8%B6%8A%E6%83%B3%E9%9B%A2%E8%81%B7%E7%9A%84%E5%BF%83%E6%83%85/id1551901369?i=1000519000763