並前往https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/ep53-%E5%B8%B8%E8%A6%8B%E6%88%BF%E5%B1%8B%E7%B6%B2%E8%B7%AF%E8%A1%8C%E9%8A%B7%E6%96%87%E6%A1%88%E9%97%9C%E9%8D%B5%E5%AD%97/id1552548769?i=1000552889020