並前往https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/ep68-%E5%82%B3%E8%AA%AA%E4%B8%AD%E9%BE%8D%E8%B2%93%E6%89%80%E5%BD%B1%E5%B0%84%E7%9A%84%E7%9C%9F%E5%AF%A6%E6%A1%88%E4%BB%B6-%E7%99%BC%E7%94%9F%E8%87%B3%E4%BB%8A%E9%83%BD%E4%BB%A4%E4%BA%BA%E8%B2%BB%E8%A7%A3%E7%9A%84%E7%8B%B9%E5%B1%B1%E4%BA%8B%E4%BB%B6/id1547199897?i=1000558256589