並前往https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/ep81-%E7%A7%91%E6%8A%80%E8%B6%A8%E5%8B%A2%E8%A9%B1%E9%A1%8C-%E5%8F%AA%E8%A6%81%E6%8A%8A%E9%81%8A%E6%88%B2%E7%8E%A9%E5%A5%BD%E5%B0%B1%E5%A5%BD-%E6%8F%AD%E5%AF%86%E8%81%B7%E6%A5%AD%E9%9B%BB%E7%AB%B6%E9%81%B8%E6%89%8B%E7%9A%84%E4%B8%80%E5%A4%A9-%E5%B0%88%E8%A8%AA%E8%8B%B1%E9%9B%84%E8%81%AF%E7%9B%9F%E9%80%80%E5%BD%B9%E9%9B%BB%E7%AB%B6%E9%81%B8%E6%89%8B-%E6%9D%B1%E6%B3%B0%E9%AB%98%E4%B8%AD%E9%9B%BB%E7%AB%B6%E9%9A%8A%E6%95%99%E7%B7%B4dee/id1485503209?i=1000523027598