並前往https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/s2ep5-%E4%BF%97%E5%A5%B3%E9%A4%8A%E6%88%90%E8%A8%98-%E7%8F%BE%E8%B1%A1%E7%B4%9A%E5%8F%B0%E5%8A%87/id1577124798?i=1000544639551