並前往https://www.listennotes.com/podcasts/%E4%B9%9D%E5%85%AB%E6%96%B0%E8%81%9E%E5%8F%B0/%E5%90%8D%E9%86%ABon-call%E6%9E%97%E9%9D%9C%E8%8E%89%E7%87%9F%E9%A4%8A%E5%B8%AB%E8%AB%87%E7%B3%96%E5%B0%BF%E7%97%85%E5%A4%A7%E5%B0%8F%E4%BA%8B-Qm0Apig1Cdq/