並前往https://www.listennotes.com/podcasts/%E4%BF%A1%E7%BE%A9%E5%AD%98%E6%84%9B%E7%B5%84/%E5%AF%A6%E7%BF%92%E7%94%9F%E5%B0%88%E8%A8%AA%E8%AA%92%E4%BD%A0%E5%AF%A6%E7%BF%92%E9%83%BD%E5%9C%A8%E5%B9%B9%E5%98%9B%E5%AD%98%E5%9C%A8%E9%9F%B3%E6%A8%82%E7%9A%84%E5%AF%A6%E7%BF%92%E7%94%9F%E5%80%91%E9%83%BD%E8%B6%85%E6%AD%A1%E6%A8%82%E5%B9%B8%E7%A6%8F%E8%81%B7%E5%A0%B4-QFcVU8Psb17/