並前往https://www.listennotes.com/podcasts/%E5%85%A9%E5%80%8B%E5%A5%B3%E7%94%9F%E7%9A%84%E8%81%8A%E5%A4%A9%E8%A8%98%E9%8C%84/63%E5%8F%B0%E5%8D%97%E4%B8%8D%E5%8F%AA%E9%97%9C%E5%BB%9F%E9%BA%B5%E9%82%84%E6%9C%89%E8%8D%89%E8%80%81%E9%97%86%E7%9A%84%E9%80%99%E6%9C%83%E5%BF%83%E7%90%86%E8%AB%AE%E5%95%86%E6%89%80-Cd1uMTvRbgX/