並前往https://www.listennotes.com/podcasts/%E5%91%B1%E5%90%89/%E5%91%B1%E5%90%89podcast%E6%96%B0%E8%B3%87%E6%96%99%E5%A4%BE80%E5%BF%99%E7%A2%8C%E6%A8%99%E9%A1%8C%E9%BB%A8-x9_gGjC7dYz/