並前往https://www.listennotes.com/podcasts/%E5%93%87%E8%B3%BD%E5%BF%83%E7%90%86%E5%AD%B8/%E5%93%87%E8%B3%BD%E9%81%B8%E6%9B%B8%E8%AE%93%E6%88%91%E5%80%91%E9%96%B1%E8%AE%80%E8%87%AA%E7%99%82-Lhpgn3tMdyG/