並前往https://www.listennotes.com/podcasts/%E5%93%87%E8%B3%BD%E5%BF%83%E7%90%86%E5%AD%B8/%E7%9E%AD%E8%A7%A3%E5%B9%BC%E5%85%92%E7%9A%84%E5%BF%83%E8%AE%93%E4%BB%96%E5%BF%AB%E6%A8%82%E5%AD%B8%E8%8B%B1%E6%96%87featruby%E8%80%81%E5%B8%AB%E5%93%87%E8%B3%BD%E7%99%82%E5%BF%83%E5%AE%A4ep-5o2a_9fWe-p/