並前往https://www.listennotes.com/podcasts/%E5%AD%AB%E6%85%B6%E9%BE%8D%E4%B9%8B%E9%9A%B1%E5%BD%A2%E5%86%A0%E8%BB%8D/%E9%80%A3%E6%9C%89%E7%99%BE%E5%84%84%E8%BA%AB%E5%83%B9%E7%9A%84%E5%A4%A7%E6%88%B6%E9%83%BD%E6%98%AF%E5%A6%82%E6%AD%A4%E8%82%A1%E7%A5%A8%E5%9C%A8%E7%B2%BE%E4%B8%8D%E5%9C%A8%E5%A4%9A-u-6mxafiHdt/