並前往https://www.listennotes.com/podcasts/%E5%AE%98%E5%93%81%E5%BF%83%E5%8A%87%E6%83%85%E8%81%8A%E5%A4%A9%E5%AE%A4-feat%E5%A4%A7%E8%87%89%E8%87%89%E6%80%AA%E7%8D%B8/ep49%E9%9B%BB%E5%BD%B1%E9%A6%AC%E5%BE%B7%E9%87%8C%E9%87%91%E5%BA%AB%E7%9B%9C%E6%95%B890%E5%88%86%E9%90%98way-xkZ24fEVvit/