並前往https://www.listennotes.com/podcasts/%E6%9B%B8%E9%81%A9%E5%9C%88/%E5%BF%83%E7%90%86%E5%AD%B8%E8%AC%9B%E5%A0%82%E5%82%B3%E8%AA%AA%E8%A3%A1%E7%9A%84%E5%BF%83%E7%90%86%E5%AD%B8%E7%89%A1%E4%B8%B9%E4%BA%AD%E5%BE%9E%E4%BA%BA%E9%AC%BC%E7%9B%B8%E6%88%80%E8%AB%87%E5%80%8B%E9%AB%94%E5%8C%96%E6%97%85%E7%A8%8B%E6%84%9B%E6%99%BA%E8%80%85%E6%9B%B8-5d-8jJuox9n/