並前往https://www.listennotes.com/podcasts/%E6%A8%82%E8%81%9A-yuehjiu/ep12-%E8%AE%93%E9%9F%B3%E6%A8%82%E6%88%90%E7%82%BA%E9%80%9A%E5%BE%80%E5%85%A7%E5%BF%83%E6%B7%B1%E8%99%95%E7%9A%84%E8%AA%9E%E8%A8%80-%E9%9F%B3%E6%A8%82%E4%BA%BA-%E7%9B%A7%E5%8F%AF%E6%B2%9B-uS4mZJi-Lv2/