並前往https://www.listennotes.com/podcasts/%E6%AD%B7%E5%8F%B2%E4%B8%8B%E9%85%92%E8%8F%9C-%E6%AD%B7%E5%8F%B2%E4%B8%8B%E9%85%92%E8%8F%9C-mB6-Q3ogpnW/