並前往https://www.listennotes.com/podcasts/1%E8%99%9F%E8%AA%B2%E5%A0%82/%E6%9D%8E%E5%84%80%E5%A9%B7%E5%92%8C%E4%BD%A0%E8%AA%AA%E5%BF%83%E7%90%86%E8%A9%B1ep03-Cnu2DEde8oV/